"...generally looted the former states of the Confederation of the Rhine and demanded more 'support' from them than Napoleon ever had."

You've made this claim several times and been asked several times for the data to back it up, but I have not yet seen any. This is a subject that I've done some research in, so I'd be very interested to see any scholarly and/or primary sources that would prove what you're claiming.

The figures are available in many cases for the forced French "contributions" in these regions, as well as for the subesequent allied wartime demands placed upon them in the period 1813-1814. One can also compare the tribute demanded by the Prussians, for example, in Hannover; vis-a-vis the French as that region changed ownership. In most cases the French demands were higher - often more than twice as high.

Also, there were relatively few examples of Allied looting of German cities in the 1813-14 period (Münster being an obvious exception.) By contrast, the French looting of these places in the 1806-7 was substantial and remarked upon by contemporaries as the worst they'd seen since the Thirty Years War. Again, there are many sources that quantify this.

Therefore, could you please provide the specific figures - and the primary sources from which you obtained them - to back up your claim, above?

You could, for example, take 20 German cities and compare their French forced contributions to Allied forced contributions, and do the same for looting.

Do you have any such data? Specific numbers would be very useful.

- - - - For Example - - - -

Hannover: Prussian occupation in 1805.

Prussians demanded 45,000 Thaler for salaries for their military bureaucracy, and soldiers were not quartered in the large towns or cities. (1)

Hannover: French occupation in 1803.

French demanded 9.1 million francs (@3m Thaler) plus 1.2m per month for his troops, from the state as a whole, plus local donations: Hameln 1.2m francs, for example, plus individual French commanders demanded their own personal fees: Barbou (100,000), D'Erlon (250 Marks per day plus horses), Rapp (100,000), etc. (2)

Brunswick: French occupation in 1806:

French demanded 5.625 million francs, collected partially in cash, partially in confiscated personal property. General Bisson extracted his personal contributions by placing women under his "protection" and ransoming them from their families. And Napoleon sent Denon to plunder the Welfens' art collection, which was taken back to Paris. (3)

Brunswick: Allied occupation in 1813:

No wealth taken, although the Prussians issued a request for people to donate shoes and shirts for the Landwehr. (4)

Kassel: French occupation in 1806 (and yes, they were neutral, and Napoleon had specifically assured them (twice) that he wouldn't attack them)

French looted the city upon arrival on 1 November, confiscated the horses and weapons and collected the artworks and valuables. They quartered troops on the residents for the first time in over a century (Hessen-Kassel had not done so previously). Demands: 7.2 million francs. (5)

Kassel: Allied occupation in 1813:

No wealth taken, but another Prussian request for clothing donations for the Landwehr. (6)

Halberstadt: French occupation in 1806

French looted the city upon arrival. All horses taken. Napoleon's demands: 520,000 francs (roughly a month's income for each family). (7)

Halberstadt: Allied occupation in 1813:

None; restoration to Prussia. (8)

Paderborn: French occupation in 1806

French looted the city upon arrival. All horses and weapons taken. Napoleon's demands: 225,000. francs (again, roughly a month's income for each family). (9)

Paderborn: Allied occupation in 1813:

None; restoration to Prussia.

-------- Sources ---------

1. Friedrich von Ompteda, Irrfahrten und Abenteuer eines mittelstaatlichen Diplomaten : Ein Lebens- und Kulturbild aus den Zeiten um 1800. Leipzig : Verlag von S. Hirzel, 1894.

2. Friedrich Thimme, Die inneren Zustände des Kurfürstentums Hannover unter französischwestfälischer Herrschaft (1806-1813. 2 Vols. Hannover-Leipzig 1895).

(on the extortions by individual French generals, see also: Kathrin Wrobel, Von Tribunalen, Friedensrichtern und Maires: Gerichtsverfassung, Rechtsprechung, und Verwaltungsorganization des Königreichs Westphalen und der besonderer Berücksichtigung Osnabrücks (Göttingen: V&R Unipress, 2004).

3. Ulrike Strauß, "Die Franzosenzeit" in: Horst-Rüdiger Jarck and Gerhard Schildt, eds. Die Braunschweigische Landesgeschichte; Jahrtausendrückblick einer Region (Braunschweig: Appelhaus, 2000). See also: R. Rümenapf-Sievers, Die Braunschweiger Bevölkerung unter französischer Herrschaft im Königreich Westfalen 1807-1813 (Braunschweig, 1981).

4. Proclamation quoted in: Buhle, Christian Adam Adolph. Schicksale und fröhliche Ereignisse der Stadt Halle vom Sept 1813 bis 1814. Halle: Ruff, 1815. The proclamation itself is in the Prussian state archives in Berlin-Dahlem. Contrast this practice with the French in 1813: When the French/Imperial military was nearby or passing through, they had the right to requisition men and animals for labor, not just supplies. For example, if a regiment had need of a tailor or cobbler, they could compel the locals to provide them. These men, and/or the owners of the animals, were then supposed to be compensated. The names of the men were not always listed; rather, each gets a number. Examples of these records in: SA-B: C. IV 9:16 Requisitionen für die Truppen der Verbündeten, 1813 ("Verbündeten" in this case means: allied to France.)

5. The Hessian state archive in Marburg has very complete records (the French pre-printed forms for confiscation were well preserved). On the extraction of wealth in the "Pay Conquis" see: HStaM: Best. 75, Nr. 2657 and 2721.

6. That proclamation came from the restored Kurfurst Wilhelm, on behalf of Blücher's army. You can see the original document online, I believe, but it's also in the HStaM.

With regard to Napoleon's acknowledgement of Hessian neutrality, see: Napoleon to Dalberg, 1 Oct, 1806, in which he also promises that he'll never attack the Hessians: "Je ne l'attaquerai jamais de mon plein gré" (This is even while he's assembling the forces to do so, and after he gave orders to collect maps of the region.) See also Bignon (N's ambassador to Hessen-Kassel) to Kurfürst Wilhelm, 24 Sept, 1806, in which he conveys the Emperor's promise to respect Hessian neutrality.

7. Georg Arndt, Chronik von Halberstadt von 1801-1850 (Halberstadt: Schimmelburg, 1908).

8. Regarding the balls, celebrations, and reception of the Allied troops, see: Nagel, Friedrich Gottlieb. Kriegsbilder aus der Heimath, hauptsächlich aus Halberstadt, Magdeburg und der Umgegend. Zur Erinnerung an die denkwürdigen Jahre 1806–1815, Halberstadt: Lindequist & Schönrock, 1848.

9. Alfred Heggen, Das Hochstift Paderborn im Königreich Westfalen 1807 bis 1813 (Paderborn: Volksbank Paderborn, 1984).

If you would like more sources / examples, of Germans in 1813 celebrating the arrival of the Allies, parading with the Cossacks as liberators, etc, I can provide plenty. But first, I think it's your turn to please provide the specific figures - and the primary sources from which you obtained them - to back up your claim, above, that the Allies looted the German states more than the French did.