Napoleon Series Archive 2013

Re: Bernadotte's Leadership Failure

‘I certainly agree with what you said above, but your last sentence still comes down to assessing blame. The question is why Bernadotte did what he did. And using words like 'abandoning' etc. is more than semantics. That may be the problem. You don't realize the collective impression such words make. Just as saying that the search for evidence is 'making excuses' for Bernadotte. That is not just semantics, but a whole lot more.’

You seem to be obsessed with the ‘assessing blame’ idea. The question is ‘why did Bernadotte do what he did.’ And the evidence that I’ve seen and supplied points to the fact of a deliberate disobedience of orders, which Berthier was quite clear in his note to Davout on the 13th. That can be ‘interpreted’ as a suggestion, but in my experience, if a superior ‘suggest’ something, then you do it as it is in actuality an order. And, as shown repeatedly in this thread, the orders to be in Dornburg were overcome by events and the situation had changed. If that isn’t evident, then I suggest further study on the situation.

If you don’t believe that excuses have been given for Bernadotte in this thread, take another look at the postings. The ideas that he was actually in obedience of his orders, which you have stated repeatedly, as well as the terrain was too rough to make it to Jena, are both excuses for Bernadotte’s bad behavior and failure to support Davout.

Stating the responsibilities of a commander of a Grande Armee corps d’armee is not assessing blame. And failures to accomplish the mission, which Bernadotte quite obviously did, is stating facts and then coming to a conclusion. Bernadotte failed and there are reasons for it. If you want to put the label of ‘assessing blame’ for what happened then have at it. But you cannot overlook the fact that Bernadotte refused to march with Davout, quite possibly, as shown, because of the petty idea that his corps would have to follow Davout’s in the line of march, or something more sinister. And the fact that Bernadotte failed to engage anyone on 14 October is also a failure of leadership and commandership, as well as judgment.

‘Is there evidence that Napoleon gave that as the reason, rather than your assessment based on your criteria. From what I have seen, Napoleon was clear about what Bernadotte *should* have done. He faulted him for not being in Dornburg, where he was expected to be, not for "abandoning" Davout. That quote has been provided in previous posts. If you have evidence that supports your contention as to why Napoleon wanted to courtmartial Bernadotte, I haven't seen it.’

Napoleon faulted Bernadotte for a ‘false march’ and failure to engage anyone. A false march meaning that he meandered between two battlefields and did nothing to find, fix, and fight the Prussians. You can also take a look at what Rapp and Savary quoted Napoleon as saying. The three quotes are as follows:

'However, according to a very precise order, you ought to have been at Dornburg, which is one of the principal passages of the Saale, on the same day as Marshal Lannes was at Jena, Marshal Augereau at Kahla, and Marshal Davout at Naumburg. In case you had not executed these orders, I had informed you during the night that, if you were still at Naumburg, you should march with Marshal Davout and support him. You were at Naumberg when these orders arrived; it was communicated to you; but, nevertheless, you preferred to make a false march in order to turn back to Dornburg, and in consuence you did not find yourself in the battle, and Marshal Davout bore the principal efforts of the enemy's army.'-quoted in Foucart, II, 243.

Napoleon told Rapp at Jena: 'Bernadotte has behaved badly. He would have been enchanted to see Davout fail in that affair, which does him [Davout] the greatest honor, all the more so because Bernadotte had rendered his position difficult.'-Rapp, Memoirs, 84.

Savary said that Napoleon's remarks about Bernadotte were even more pointed: 'That is so hateful that if I send him to a court-martial it is equivalent to ordering him to be shot; it is better for me not to speak to him about it. I believe he has enough honor to recognize that he has performed a disgraveful action regarding which I shall not bandy words with him.'-Savary, Memoirs II, 292.

Key in Napoleon’s letter is that Bernadotte was to march with Davout if he was not already at Naumburg. Rapp quotes Napoleon as ‘Bernadotte has behaved badly.’ And he further quotes Napoleon as saying that ‘Bernadotte had rendered [Davout’s’] position difficult.’ He said that because Bernadotte had left Davout alone. That can be definitely interpreted as Bernadotte abandoning Davout. And Savary quotes Napoleon as stating that Bernadotte ‘has performed a disgraceful action.’

Seems to me the evidence is quite conclusive.

‘The questions still remains. Your assertions are that 1. Bernadotte, regardless of any other orders, should have remained with Davout and 2. Because the situation had "changed". I have not seen any contemporary evidence that the military men of the time thought that. It is obvious why Sahuc would want to return to Davout instead of join Murat, who [Bernadotte was ordered to support. There is nothing in Napoleon's order to Davout that suggests that Bernadotte was now supposed to abandon those orders and support Davout... or vice versa.’

As shown, Bernadotte should have stayed to support Davout because the orders were changed. Dornburg not having been reached, Bernadotte was ordered to march with Davout. Orders were changed on the evening of the 13th, and not ‘abandoned.’ That marks another excuse for Bernadotte on your part.

Sahuc evidently wanted to countermarch to support Davout because Davout was engaged in a fight and Bernadotte was not. Bernadotte’s silencing of Sahuc is yet another indicator that Bernadotte did not want to support Davout.

‘If you want to insist that Bernadotte abandon Davout, when circumstances *clearly* required him to stay, I haven't seen any contemporary comments to that effect from French officers. The situation may have changed, but I don't see the Prussians moving away from Davout as proof that Bernadotte had to support Davout. The expectations of later historians *should* really be based on the historical evidence too.’

The assertions of later historians were supported by evidence and that has also been posted.

No one has said that the Prussians were moving away from Davout. That’s either a strawman argument or another misinterpretation of a posting. You pick which it is. The comments shown definitely demonstrate that Bernadotte definitely did abandon Davout and he was ordered to march with Davout on the 14th.

This thread and discussion are becoming circular and seems to me to be another version of the ‘Talavera game.’

Sincerely,
K

Messages In This Thread

Re: For A Correct View Of Bernadotte At Jena, See
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Barton Map p 148
the cause
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Stephane Béraud volume 2
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Naumburg - Dornburg - Apolda
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Belliard gives us more information
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the missing order
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Re: For A Correct View Of Bernadotte At Jena, See
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Historical Conclusions...
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pourriez